Meet Jared. Oxytocin, direct communication, and clear boundaries. (Ep.31)
Sneak peek of Episode 31
Show notes and sneak peek
Happy holidays! You know the best gift you could give us? A review and a follow - and sharing an episode with a friend! Our website is pushingpastpolitepodcast.com, and you can find us on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, and YouTube @pushingpastpolite)
On Episode 31, we have our first actual guest! Our dear mutual friend Jared joins us and shares so much wisdom - from why men need longer hugs to what it feels like to be an autistic man interacting in a predominantly allistic society. Kori and Laura start off singing some Flo Rida because sometimes it takes them a few moments to focus, and then we do a quick holiday check in. Once we talk through how we’re tackling wrapping gifts, the gals share their experiences with Jared and then let him introduce himself to you all. Conversation topics include the inclination for white folks to have more exclusionary circles over time, the concept of weaponized mass envy brought on by social hierarchies (see: white supremacy), the megaphone and the whispers of hateful policy, the importance of validating individuals’ experiences, the magic of good communication (with paraphrasing and active listening). We then shift to asking Jared what’s on his mind, given his intersectional identities as an autistic, gay, white man looking ahead to 2025. Unsurprisingly, we touch on politics, and Jared warns us to avoid the temptation to vilify large swaths of folks, drawing on experiences he’s had visiting Texas. He encourages us instead to get brave and have conversation - even if it’s awkward - to try to bridge divides. And please listen out for his love language that Kori and I want to put on mugs, sweatshirts, and socks. Y’all, we just know you’ll love him like we do.
Resources
Transcript
[00:00:00] Kori: I love that. Do you know that song, Jared? I do not know. She got those apple bottom jeans, boots with the fur, with the fur. The whole club was looking at her. Woo! She hit the floor. Next thing you know, she's got a low, low, low, low, low, low, low, low, low, low.
[00:00:31] Laura: That's an old one. That's an old one. Welcome to Pushing Past Polite, where we talk about what matters, sing ridiculous songs. And, uh, hopefully make the world more just in the process. I'm Laura. I'm Kori. And we have a special guest with us today.
[00:00:46] Kori: Yes. It is me? It is you.
[00:00:49] Laura: Hooray. It's you. Um, would you like to, I want you to say a little bit more about, you know, who you are and how you show up in the world in a minute, but can you just introduce yourself really quickly?
[00:01:02] Jared: I would love to. So I'm Jared Boyce and I have the pleasure of knowing the two lovely hosts of this show A little while, I think Laura, we met about two years ago at this point, late 2022, though I certainly heard your name in very complimentary ways floating around the office well before then. And I think Kori, we've known each other for about six years, I want to say.
[00:01:25] And I think one of our first interactions was when you were part of a team co leading some trainings and workshops internally to our former workplace. Uh, that you won an award for, if I am remembering correctly,
[00:01:39] Laura: um,
[00:01:40] Jared: and that is, that is how I know both of you in our first memories and our prior employers.
[00:01:46] Laura: So a former coworker who we just, we just keep, we keep people, we're collecting good people as we go. And Jared is huggers
[00:01:53] Kori: on the planet.
[00:01:54] Laura: Oh, he is. From what I hear. Jared gives amazing hugs.
[00:01:58] Jared: Takes one to know one, Kori.
[00:02:01] Laura: I'm jealous I've never met you in person to be able to claim that, but I believe it.
[00:02:06] These are good reviews.
[00:02:08] Jared: We need to plan a grant proposal for like, to do that empirical testing sometime, I think.
[00:02:15] Laura: What makes a good hug? I love it. I love that too. So Jared's with us today. We're so happy. We're gonna dig in a little bit more and, uh, learn more about what's on his mind in just a minute. But just wanted to do a quick holiday touch base.
[00:02:28] Is everybody keeping sanity? Or what, two weeks out, Kori, you've started Elf on the Shelf.
[00:02:36] Kori: I'm done. I'm good. I've, I've, I've, I've distributed all of the gifts for the school people. Um, Daniel is doing his team. Um, Santa Claus is come, is coming to town. So, the Santa Claus things, I believe, are close, in close proximity.
[00:03:00] See? Um, and then the boys wanted some suitcases because we're going to be traveling. So we have, it's all, it's all here. We, I have the suitcases, a bunch of clothes. I'm going to pack the suitcases with clothes. So, um, and you know, toiletries, like travel stuff.
[00:03:17] Laura: Gifts and a gift. That's fun. Mm hmm. Mm
[00:03:19] Kori: hmm. Pull it all out.
[00:03:20] Pull it all out. We have like, uh, one big gift for them to share. And my parents have been sending things. My mother in law is in town, so she's been sending things. She has a whole closet full of stuff downstairs, so. Operation
[00:03:35] Laura: wrapping can commence.
[00:03:36] Kori: Operation wrapping can commence. And there won't be a lot of that, not for me.
[00:03:40] Um, Santa Claus doesn't wrap gifts in our house. It's like, the Santa Claus
[00:03:45] Laura: It's smart, smart.
[00:03:46] Kori: That's how you differentiate. The Santa Claus gifts are the ones that are just there placed, and then the other gifts get wrapped. So, um, yeah, but since we're doing a suitcase, we're not gonna be, like, I'm not gonna wrap the suitcase.
[00:04:00] That's so smart.
[00:04:01] Laura: You are so smart. Meanwhile, I'm looking at all these boxes behind me and little bitty intricate things and going Deep regret. Deep regret for not starting that tradition.
[00:04:10] Kori: It's also where, where are the people who do, enjoy doing that and I would pay for that service. Here it's like paper source, it's 8 a gift.
[00:04:23] That's high. And there's another company, it's
[00:04:29] Laura: 15 a gift. There's someone here locally in Richmond, if anybody, I'll put this in the show notes if anybody needs it. Ellie. Well, yeah, my daughter will do it too, but there's someone who does it because she enjoys it and does it for charity. You donate per present.
[00:04:44] The recommended donation is 2 and she picks a charity for the season. She provides all the wrapping. Like, you don't even need to bring paper. Kori's ready to drive to Richmond to drop off all her gifts.
[00:04:56] Kori: That
[00:04:56] Laura: is worth the three hour
[00:04:58] Kori: drive.
[00:04:58] Laura: Yep, there you come hang out with me, we'll get a little, little drinky drinky, get your presents wrapped.
[00:05:03] Kori: Oh,
[00:05:03] Laura: wow. Jared, how about you? What do holidays look like for you? Are you getting ready? Is there a lot of prep, or is it pretty, pretty easy?
[00:05:10] Jared: Holidays have become simpler and less dramatic over the years for me, I'm pleased to report, not necessarily for good reasons, but the result is pleasant. So growing, like growing up, Thanksgiving was going to visit my dad's parents and they're not with us anymore.
[00:05:26] And then during the period of time when I was married, Thanksgiving often looked like going to visit my in laws, whom are very lovely people. And there's some family dynamics as there always are.
[00:05:37] Kori: And
[00:05:38] Jared: now that I am no longer married, just like. Keeping things closer to home is just simpler. And for me, this year with Thanksgiving, my mother was very upfront with me and said, Jared, you can do whatever you want for Thanksgiving, because this is what we're going to do with just a few family friends, and it's going to be chaotic, not dramatic.
[00:05:57] But chaotic, if that distinction makes sense. And I just went to a friend's friendsgiving and spent the day there and it was delightful. And it was like, no guilt. It was no shame. It was just, we're all, what's going to make the most people the most happy and give us what we need. And for me, that was going to a friendsgiving and, you know, having some beautiful time there.
[00:06:18] And then like for Christmas and New Year's, it's, you know, our Christmas has become simpler as my sister and I have gotten older, if that makes sense. And so like, that's just a very simple, straightforward thing. New Year's used to be on my, with my mother's parents who are no longer with us. And so this year I'm going to go visit some friends in Chico, whom I try to see several times per year.
[00:06:42] And unfortunately this year, because of me getting sick or one of them getting sick, Many of our trips to visit one another had been canceled. So like, we're kind of like, I'll say I'm a little bit desperate. I'm a little bit desperate to see them because I miss them.
[00:06:56] Laura: Oh, you're overdue. They
[00:06:57] Kori: need a hug. You need a hug.
[00:06:59] I need a hug from them. And those hugs are good. And that transfer of energy and the hugs are nice. You know, just like that, like you feel connected, giving Jared a hug. It's like, I, that was when I was, when I was like, Oh yeah, I liked this person. But, like, now I feel a connection to this person. Aww. Thank
[00:07:21] Laura: you.
[00:07:21] Well, just imagine if you're feeling you need the hug, imagine how those huggy recipients of your hugs are feeling right now. Chico is hurting. They need you. Get there.
[00:07:30] Jared: Yes, ma'am. I didn't know I was going to be bossed around today, but I can take this. I can do this. Lovingly.
[00:07:35] Laura: Only lovingly. Yeah. Okay, so I'm hearing simpler.
[00:07:39] I'm hearing it's handled. Jared's not finished, Laura. Oh, sorry, sorry, sorry. Oh, I
[00:07:42] Jared: was going to give a fun fact on hugging. Yeah. To be clear for your listeners, I'm not a medical doctor. This is not medical advice. And what I've heard is that in general, men need more physical contact for the same amount of oxytocin release.
[00:07:57] So if anything, you should encourage the men in your life who could use a little more connection. Like, you know what? Give that hug a little another, like two or three seconds, just like sink into that hug a little bit more.
[00:08:08] Kori: I love
[00:08:08] Laura: that. I'll be right back. Let me get my husband's teleworking. I'll be right back.
[00:08:13] Kori: Hey honey, can you come downstairs? Yeah, let me help ya. I got something
[00:08:17] Laura: for ya. I got a little oxytocin for ya. Oh, that's so cute. I love that. I love that.
[00:08:24] Jared: Yeah, it's a hell of a drug. Um, you know, just a little bit of hug for a little bit of hormone.
[00:08:30] Kori: Hugs for hormones. I set up a little t shirt. I'm thinking of kissing booth hugs for
[00:08:36] Laura: work.
[00:08:40] Promise not creepy underneath in parentheses. Not creepy, I swear. Oh my god. That
[00:08:44] Jared: came out a little bit something er than I intended it, but I'm gonna go. Something er. It has been immortalized. So there we go.
[00:08:52] Laura: Hugs for hormones. I'm going to volunteer at the middle school today. Maybe I should, uh, see if I can feel her as that craze.
[00:09:00] Kori: You will never be allowed back at the middle school. No, you'll be on a list.
[00:09:05] Laura: Yeah, that phrase, and I'm bringing sugar. We're doing a hot chocolate bar for the kids during their lunches today. So the thought of sugar and hormones, we're going to go ahead and pass on that.
[00:09:16] Kori: Yeah. And there's a lot of hormones in middle school, so you don't need to bring, it doesn't need any extra hugs.
[00:09:21] Maybe I'll bring them. You
[00:09:23] Laura: know what? I'm perimenopausal. Why don't I take some of their hormones back?
[00:09:28] Kori: Maybe it'll level you out.
[00:09:31] Jared: This sounds like an excellent opportunity for consent with personal touch. Yes. Like, to the adolescents in our life, remember to like, ask before you give someone a hug.
[00:09:40] Kori: Yeah.
[00:09:40] Jared: And transfer,
[00:09:41] Kori: and give them that hormone boost.
[00:09:43] Everyone doesn't want hormones from you, kid.
[00:09:45] Laura: Yeah, no. Or the smell. Or any of that. Any of that. Yes.
[00:09:53] Oh, I love it. So Kori and I have routinely received emails the morning after a new episode drops of this podcast from this sweet friend of ours from Jared, who will give us a thoughtful analysis or something he found intriguing or something he has more questions about, or, um, you know, this, this echoes true in my life because blah, blah, blah.
[00:10:17] And it's always like, it's such a gift to know somebody is out there listening to you and someone who we really respect and is so thoughtful. Yeah. No, we love you. You're one of our faves. Um, so we said, uh, yeah, if we ever do a guest situation, we're going to need to, we're going to need to have this guy on.
[00:10:35] Cause he's always got some great thoughts. It is a pleasure to serve.
[00:10:42] Um, so Jared, tell us, like, tell people who don't know you, we again, are the lucky few here, but like, how do you think, how do you show up in the world? Like if you were to describe yourself to someone or to try to, Introduce someone to you for the first time. What would you, what would you say?
[00:10:59] Jared: Ooh, okay.
[00:11:00] Jared in 30 seconds. I would say I love board games. I grew up on board games. I remember learning probability from my dad doing dice roll calculations. Um, love computer games. I would say that I'm a former teacher and high school administrator. Now I do education research, which is how the three of us met and came together.
[00:11:20] Um, and I would also say that I'm autistic. And, on one hand, it's one of many things about my life, and on another hand, I can imagine a Jared who, for example, is not gay. I am gay, but I can imagine a Jared who wasn't. You know, imagining a Jared who's not male, harder, but I might be able to get there.
[00:11:42] Kori: But,
[00:11:42] Jared: um, You know, the more I've reflected on it, I, the more I feel like, you know what?
[00:11:46] I can't imagine a Jared who's not autistic. And just because that just literally the world gets filtered through my brain and my brain is just wired differently and it's. I just can't imagine myself out of that, if that makes sense, not that I'm trying to, but more just in terms of sequencing, how close is something to your core identity and, I want to tie this into something about how Kori and I got to know each other back in the day, because Kori, I remember one of the conversations we had back in 2022, yeah.
[00:12:20] Yeah. Where you were on our division's DEI committee, I was upcoming on the next round of the division's DEI committee. And I remember saying, just talking about some of the messaging and training that we've had over the years and the way in which I have felt somewhat othered by it in the way that disabilities and different challenges get very marginalized.
[00:12:45] And I acknowledge, like, hey, Kori, I want to acknowledge you are in the room and that you planned and led some of these things. I don't want to call you out. I want to be clear because being clear is being kind. And I remember, like, the way I remember that meeting, Kori, is like, you were the one saying, Jared, this, we need more of this.
[00:13:04] This is what the work looks like. And I just remember how warmly and authentically you modeled what it means to take some feedback, much of which was not about you or your trainings, to be abundantly clear.
Kori: Um, And how you're like, Jared, you are teaching me now, this is a gift. And anyone who's used this feedback, not as a gift is doing it wrong.
[00:13:26] And I'm like, okay, Kori is safe. Like that was when, you know, you were on like the 98 percent mark on safety. And I'm like, and this is Kori topping it out too. Now she's a sure thing. Um, and that's just a memory I have of you and what it means to be safe for other people in the workplace, which I know is one of the themes that you've talked about on your past episodes.
[00:13:49] Kori: Wow, Jared, now I'm all teary eyed over here. It's too early to be teary eyed.
[00:13:58] That's so beautiful, but I mean, I don't remember that, but I, that sounds right because that's the truth. If we're talking about creating spaces of inclusion and belonging, then how do we say to somebody who's telling us that they don't feel like they're being heard or included And that what we're doing to create spaces of inclusion is actually marginalizing them.
[00:14:20] How do we not take that as feedback necessary to integrate into our work? Like, that's absolutely critical. You, you work with us. So you feeling that you matter, matters.
[00:14:35] Jared: Strongly agree.
[00:14:36] Laura: And it reminds us too that, you know, identities are complex. They're not single facets, right? Right? Being. You know, a, a white woman, a Black woman, okay, so we've got, we've got gender and we've got race, but there's so many other dimensions of that, right?
[00:14:51] There's, you know, our proximity to power or our marginalization from power can, can look lots of different ways. It can be about ableism. It can be about, you know, shape of body or, you know, the size of your bodies, your sexuality as well as your gender, all these different components. So it's. It's a good reminder as we think about DEI that it's not just about race, right?
[00:15:16] That's something that you can't hide about yourself, which is why it's particularly salient and powerful. Um, but there are lots of other dimensions that maybe people don't think of. So, um, good reminder for us for sure.
[00:15:29] Kori: Mm hmm.
[00:15:30] Laura: Yeah. Thanks, Jared.
[00:15:31] Jared: Well, thank you. I want to piggyback off of that, Laura, because, um, One of the things that you both have made me think about over the last couple of months was one of your November episodes.
[00:15:42] Where, Laura, you were sharing, like, being very included and thankful for being in a predominantly of color space. And I remember you were asking Kori, I would say half rhetorically, half seriously, a little bit like, you know, I imagine this takes some work to be this welcoming. Like why? Why would people, especially on the racial dimension, being of color in the U.S., like go out of their way so much to include white people and not just, you know, keep a little bit more to themselves in certain ways and I'm paraphrasing awkwardly, not having any pride in the language. And I remember Kori's response being like, well, I hear that, Laura, but what's the alternative? Like, like what's the alternative here?
[00:16:23] Like, can you imagine what that would look like if just did not exist? We people of color and in particular Black people just did not interface with white people and I thought that was a productive exploration about just assumptions people make about just identity, but also certain realities of Numbers of people where those people occur the costs to not interacting And that made me just think for myself, I was just like, thank you, Kori.
[00:16:50] I love that you said that because for me, it's not race. For those of you who listening, I am a white man. For me, it's the autistic-allistic divide where there's about 2 percent of the United States that's on the autistic spectrum. And there's 98 percent of y'all who are allistic and let me tell you with love.
[00:17:11] Some of you are just so messy. So much of the time.
[00:17:18] Laura: I wish I could gift you my brain to see the way I see you. The way I see you. You messy fool.
[00:17:24] Kori: Messy fool. Lord.
[00:17:26] Jared: And I'm glad we can laugh about that. But like I have a similar reaction, which is just. I love the autistic friends I have, but I also love the allistic friends I have, and I'd be worse off not interfacing with allistic people, but also my life would just be so much smaller.
[00:17:42] Like there's just 98 percent of the population. I
[00:17:46] Laura: would love to tell you that question was asked rhetorically. Sadly, it was not. I was serious because, and I don't mean like interface in terms of just daily interactions, but the idea of like letting someone into your circle of trust. If I were someone who was mar who was of marginalized identities and really struggled with microaggressive behaviors, as I know, that you do and have.
[00:18:08] I would really have a hard time with that and that shows my privilege. Can I tell you something that's actually
[00:18:12] Kori: interesting?
[00:18:13] Laura: What's that?
[00:18:14] Kori: Is that's what white people actually do. That's what white people do. White people are the people who are more exclusionary. That you'll see that people who grew up around people of color, had friends in elementary school, high school, the farther in education they progress, the whiter their spaces started to become. Right?
[00:18:37] Laura: And so it's I see that in my own life.
[00:18:38] Kori: Yeah. I see that. Yeah. And so it's very much like, because of the way our society has been set up, we, we're Black folks, brown people, people who have any kind of difference from the, you know, Protestant, male, Christian, uh, heterosexual, cisgender, like all of that stuff, right?
[00:19:02] It's like that space is an exclusionary space. And there are groups that have like tighter associations to that space. And you see that people. will get white, their spaces become more white and more white and more white people who are of color, their spaces stay diverse, but they might stay separated.
[00:19:27] Right? Like, I have some spaces that are much more predominantly Black and I live in a community that is predominantly Black. On purpose. Because that, on purpose, because that creates a sense of safety for me in my community to be able to move about in everywhere we go, the grocery store, the Home Depot, the post office, wherever, we're seeing people that look like us, right?
[00:19:55] Um, but also historically in the United States, when Black people did things like that, white people came and burned it the fuck down. Like literally. It was like white rage and Tulsa. Not just Tulsa. There are hundreds of these stories. Yeah,
[00:20:13] Laura: but totally. Yeah,
[00:20:14] Kori: but it's like burned it to the ground. So that's also like part of the, the.
[00:20:21] historical embedded incentive or reminder that people say things like, why don't you go back to where you came from? Or why don't you start doing your own whatever? But the reality is. If we start doing our own whatever and are thriving, somebody's going to come and burn it to the ground.
[00:20:44] Jared: Weaponized mass envy.
[00:20:45] Kori: Yeah. Oh, yes.
[00:20:51] Jared: Yeah.
[00:20:51] Kori: I like that. I hadn't even thought about it like that, Jared.
[00:20:55] Jared: Well, it becomes an identity threat. So it's not just weaponized mass envy, but it becomes this collective identity threat where if I am the hierarchy. Um, at level, like, you know, where lower is better. So like level one would be the top level, right?
[00:21:11] If it's like, you know what? I, I'm a level two kind of person and I live in this very hierarchical way. And these levels for people are thriving. That doesn't just hit a collective mass envy. It hits an identity threat because now if you're doing better than I am, Am I really level two? Right. And it just becomes this worldview threat where it's like, this must be reconciled.
[00:21:40] Like, heaven forbid. My view of the world changed. No, the world must change to meet my view of it. Yes. Because it is too scary for me to admit that I am wrong.
[00:21:49] Laura: Yeah. Um. Or to see commonality in connection with someone who I perceive as lower than, right? As level four. Yep. Right. Yep. Totally. Yeah. And even I think, you know, Kori your example of, you know, Tulsa and other such Black community massacres, like totally valid.
[00:22:07] And I think about the more insidious ways this happens, right? Why is my circle more white? Well, red lining and development and who could get mortgages and where is. You know, like this is where my home is. And as a result of the way that schools are funded and boundaries are drawn, guess what? The people who go to my school look a lot like me and my kids, et cetera.
[00:22:28] Right? So there's, there's the really awful, hateful shit. And then there's also the latent. The, the more insidious policy pieces. The quiet, awful, hateful shit. That's exactly right. There's the loud,
[00:22:38] Kori: awful, hateful shit.
[00:22:39] Laura: The megaphone. And the quiet, awful, hateful shit. The megaphone and the whispers, right?
[00:22:43] Exactly. That's exactly right. Yeah. That's exactly right.
[00:22:45] Kori: Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah. Which, again, goes back to, like, what Jared said in terms of our discussion about othering. It's, that othering is how we maintain those hierarchies, right? If we can keep othering people out. Even someone who may present as being at a certain place in the hierarchy, if we can figure out ways to other them, then it helps us to maintain the, the tight knitness of this space.
[00:23:15] Jared: And I think that, I want to yes and that and circle back to what Laura said about certain identities being more visible than others. I remember, so Kori I relayed a very positive interaction you and I had across a racial and neurological wiring divide. I can also think of a less productive interaction I've had with a different coworker, a woman of color, where we were having a conversation about race and we were both getting a bit activated in the conversation and she took a moment to pause and tell me how she was hearing me.
[00:23:50] And yeah, you know, I want to let her conversation be private. I'll share how I paraphrased that, how I paraphrased it was, “What I hear you saying is you're experiencing me as being confrontational and being very literal with your language and picking over your words. And also, I'm focusing overly narrowly on this specific instance we're talking about, and I'm not bringing in other important factors that you value.”
[00:24:19] And she said, “yes, that's what I'm saying to you.” And I said, okay, so, and one of the things she had also said is, “Jared, you're being very white right now.” And that's how she had unpacked it. And I said to her, okay, so I'd like to ask you a question on that. And she said, yes. And I said, “why do you think I'm being very white right now, as opposed to being very autistic right now?
[00:24:42] Because autistic people often are much more direct. Autistic people are often much more literal with language. Okay. And autistic people often, especially when activated, if you are not explicitly invoking context, many of us will not automatically pull the context you are thinking of because we're, you know, that is just something that we make fewer inferential leaps in many ways.
[00:25:07] And it's like, you haven't brought this into the conversation. That's not a part of the conversation.” And she looked very surprised that that was my response. And I want to be clear, I'm not saying I showed up in that conversation perfectly. Chances are I could have done something better, you know, developmental lens on my own understandings of certain things.
[00:25:28] Laura: Right.
[00:25:29] Jared: Um, yet in that moment, I'm at the risk of self-aggrandizing, as we all can do to ourselves. I hope that I, I hope she received it as an opportunity to expand her imagination of it. That what she was noticing may not have been what she was seeing on my skin and more importantly socialization around that.
[00:25:53] But she was seeing something else that was going on that was a little bit more covert that she had not thought about. Um, and yeah, I think it's, I think it does just get very messy because there's ways in which both of us may have felt other than that conversation. Um, based on what each of us was bringing to it.
[00:26:12] And I know that's just very tough to navigate because I don't want to negate her experience, but I kind of also don't want to negate mine. And like, I was trying to have the conversation as best I can, given how my brain is wired. Um, yeah,
[00:26:29] Kori: but the thing is that I appreciate about what you're saying is you were having a conversation, right?
[00:26:34] And so the more of those that take place. The more times, hopefully, it's like, creates opportunity for more understanding. One of the things I so appreciate about you, Jared, and in the way that we communicate, not just like, Having difficult conversations, but even just in meetings, right, is you re share what you think you're hearing before you comment or respond, right?
[00:27:09] Yes. Which creates an opportunity for those who have shared to clarify, to re share, to reframe, to add context if necessary before you respond. And it also gives everyone in the room a glimpse into how your brain is processing the information that is
[00:27:33] Laura: being communicated. Yes. You are the king of active listening and summarizing.
[00:27:38] It's one, it's amazing. It's a magical thing. It's amazing. It really is. If I could, if I could say like, there's a quote that sums up like, like, uh, the mode of most frequently used phrase. What I think I hear you saying is. Yes. And I love that because it's not, you're saying this, it's like what I, I'm, I'm, it's kind of a gut check, right?
[00:27:58] Like, I want to make sure before I respond, and I will tell you, my brain is not as fast as that, right? My brain is thinking, I need to respond, I need to respond, I got to hold this idea in my head because they said something and this rubbed me the wrong way and I'm, I, I try not to be right. I try to slow it down, um, and put my feelings aside, but you're so good at like summarizing, and creating that, like reflecting back what you heard.
[00:28:22] and still holding your piece of the things you're thinking at bay. It's so amazing. I think it's something we all could learn from.
[00:28:30] Kori: Another gift you have is the and. Yes. You do that in your everyday conversation. I'm going to
[00:28:35] Laura: yes and this. Yes. You're, you're the master. Yeah. You're like an improv God.
[00:28:40] You're like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like I'm just picturing like SNL Second City, like all these people. Yes. And it's not a no, but it's always a yes. And you're always acknowledging something. That other people are saying than feeling and you add your nuance or your spin or your take on it. It's awesome.
[00:28:59] Jared: Well, thank you both.
[00:29:00] I'm going to, I'm going to rub those in. One of the principles I used to work with, um, she noticed her students couldn't take compliments. So she taught them to like, you know, if you get a compliment and you don't know what to do with it, you'd grab it out of the air and you'd put your hand on your chest and you just rub that compliment in.
[00:29:15] She taught that to me back in 2012. And I'm just like, I love that. I just, I love that. Get that compliment in. Um, no, thank you both. I paraphrasing is a great communication skill because among other things. Um, I'm going to yes hand what you said about it, Laura. It's a both ways. It's like, I'm hearing you, but as I paraphrase you, you're hearing me, so it's like a dual understanding.
[00:29:38] Laura: Yep.
[00:29:39] Jared: Another lovely thing about paraphrasing as a skill is it works when other people know you're doing it. There are certain communication skills where when someone figures it out, they might feel a little bit manipulated or a little something. But paraphrasing is like, it's very overt, it's very transparent, and it still works when everyone knows what's going on.
[00:29:57] Laura: Mm hmm. Yeah. Laura. You bring up transparency. Yeah. Like it fe it feels like a, we're on a level playing field because I'm just, I'm, I'm making sure that we both understand each other and that way we can move forward in the conversation.
[00:30:10] Jared: Yeah, I, it's like, that's been a really helpful skill for me because I have found that I am regularly Misunderstanding other people, see neurological wiring, and also regularly being misunderstood.
[00:30:21] Yes, and so like it is a great two way skill
[00:30:25] Kori: Where
[00:30:25] Jared: like it just is like are we all talking about the same thing here?
[00:30:29] Kori: And often sometimes we're not.
[00:30:31] Jared: Exactly. Right. And It's just a really good gut check and it's a really good way of making sure we're in sync. And like you said, Laura, it slows the conversation down a little bit.
[00:30:43] Like I, I love the witty back and forth and the repartee. And for certain conversations, it's like, you know what, maybe, maybe letting it sink in a little bit longer, maybe checking, maybe saying it a different way. Love it. Really good skill. Another one, I'm going to drop another one that I've been practicing the last couple of years, um, Which is when you're talking to someone, I can find that there's a temptation to only respond to either the first thing they said, or the last thing they said.
[00:31:15] And if it's the first thing, then I find I don't do a good job of listening after that first thing. And if it's the last thing, I find that I often overly fixate on that and not what led there. So something I've been working on the last couple of years is when someone's talking to me, I want to remember the first and the last thing that they said, which then helps me remember what's in the middle too.
[00:31:37] But just like, don't just remember the first or the last thing. Remember both.
[00:31:43] Kori: It's so interesting you say that because I feel like that's true for me even when I'm responding to text messages, right? It's like I'll read a whole message and I'll start responding to the first or the last thing. It's In my response.
[00:31:58] And so I, I have been pausing to go back and make sure I'm responding to the full message. Right? So for example, if someone's telling me in the message that somebody was sick and that's why they haven't, I haven't heard from them and then they're responding to whatever I had initially texted them about, I try not to skip over the thing that they were saying is going on.
[00:32:22] Like I try to comment back like, Oh my gosh, I didn't realize it's, Thank you for sharing. How is everyone doing now? Are people feeling better? Is it back on the mend? And then move along to the next thing. Um, because you're right. We, in, in acknowledging the fullness of what someone says, it supports that idea of like, I'm actually really hearing you.
[00:32:46] I'm hearing you to understand, empathize, be compassionate and connected to what you're saying. And I'm not just hearing you to extract information or get what I need from you. It's not transactional. It feels more holistic. Yeah.
[00:33:00] Jared: And sometimes what I've done is I've even just said things like, you said a lot right there and I'm genuinely not sure where to start responding.
[00:33:08] Because I'm worried that if I respond to the wrong thing first, then I'll be missing out on something else very important to what you said. And just like, again, just being very transparent with that. Like.
[00:33:21] Kori: Yeah,
[00:33:23] Laura: you said a lot right there. You messy allistic fool. Can you just slow it down? Why you need to work on brevity and you need to talk to somebody about that.
[00:33:33] Oh my God. That's so funny. Okay. So what are the other things we wanted to ask you? We wanted to talk a little bit about how you showed up in the world and why we love you. And well, there are a million reasons why we love you. The hugs, the, the great listening, the. SNL, improv, God, all of that. But also, like, what's on your mind as we're entering end of the year, beginning of 2025, all that's coming with that?
[00:33:56] Like, what's on your mind? What are the things that you're worried about, concerned about, excited about? Tell us what you want to, what would you like to talk about in that regard?
[00:34:05] Jared: Yeah. So it's hard for me to think about what's coming next year without thinking about politics. And I know you both shared some of your feelings on politics.
[00:34:14] I have been having similar conversations in some of my spaces. Um, I feel disappointed, but not surprised if that makes sense completely. And there are some people in my social circle who are more devastated than disappointed. And I want to welcome their feelings while not being overwhelmed by them myself.
[00:34:34] Yes.
[00:34:34] Kori: Yes.
[00:34:35] Jared: I
[00:34:36] Kori: want
[00:34:38] Jared: to welcome their feelings without being overwhelmed by them myself. One of the things I'm struggling with in terms of supporting my friends is that, hey, here's another Jaredism, which is, I don't know how to say this well, so I'm going to say it awkwardly.
[00:34:58] Kori: Perfect. That's it.
[00:35:01] Jared: I, there's the age old question of like a diverse society to what extent do we need to be intolerant of intolerance,
[00:35:08] Kori: right?
[00:35:08] Jared: And there's a lot of complexity there. And one of the things I'm struggling with though over the last months plus has been the way in which some people whom I care for and respect deeply have been vilifying quote the other side or vilifying those people. I don't like vilifying people to prove that vilifying people is wrong.
[00:35:33] I think like there is just something very antithetical there. I'm fine to critique ideas, I'm fine to critique behavior, but I really do not like vilifying people as people. Like if you gen for me, if I genuinely believe in the inherent worth and dignity of every human being, then it's very hard for me to vilify that.
[00:35:55] Again, I can vilify the behavior, But vilifying the people, and one of the ways this has shown up, um, recently is after the election, I went to Dallas. Uh, Dallas, Texas. I went to visit some, a friend of mine's parents who are lovely, doting, adorable Jewish grandparents and all the best ways and stereotypes.
[00:36:19] And then to go to a board game convention there, because again, I love board games. And when I got We live
[00:36:24] Laura: with that. We do live with that. Hi, I'm Jennifer. I love board games.
[00:36:27] Jared: And, and when I got
[00:36:30] Laura: back,
[00:36:31] Jared: it's, I got some people saying like, was it okay going to Texas? Like, did you feel safe? Like, did you interact with any of those people in Dallas?
[00:36:39] It's like You know what? Overwhelmingly, the people I've met in Dallas are number one, human. Like can we just start with they're human. They're not like aliens or extraterrestrials. Like they're, they're humans. They're flesh and blood humans, like everyone. And overwhelmingly, like, The vast majority of people I've met there, just like most other places in this world, people are respect, at a minimum, respectful and polite, and at a maximum, delightful, wholesome individuals who are incredibly warm and welcoming, regardless of some disagreements we may have on some things.
[00:37:16] And I've gotten this for years because back when I was married, most of my in laws lived in Dallas, Texas. So that's where we would go visit my husband's side of the family. And I would get similar, like, Oh, Jared, did you feel safe? Did they welcome? It's like they're, you know, some of them I might choose not to be friends with if we didn't have the familial connection, but again, how many families could say that, right?
[00:37:40] That's just lice. But, like, they were incredibly welcoming, like, of me, of a similarly gendered relationship. Like, you know, keep your stereotypes to yourself, thank you very much. Like, these are lovely, welcoming people too. And, it just, I really struggle with that. The way in which we assume I don't know.
[00:38:03] It's messy because we do have aggregate data on certain behavior. And we know that data be, certain aggregate behavior comes from places, and I'm sounding very Ed Researchery, I know when I say that, right? But like, for me, when I go to lived instances, like individual, when you get individuals together, my overwhelming experience has been positive
[00:38:27] Kori: and
[00:38:28] Jared: yeah, and I just, and I really struggle, especially when people come to say.
[00:38:33] Those evil people, maybe not literally in those words, but some form of those evil people stereotyping as being a coastal elite, and I hate that. And I'm just, did you just hear yourself anyway? So yeah, I said a lot there. I'll just say, I said a lot there, but like, I
[00:38:51] Laura: want to make sure I respond to the right thing.
[00:38:52] You said a lot there. Um, no, it's, it's a, it's true. And I feel that, you know, if, if we've learned anything in the last two to three election cycles. People don't respond very well to being shamed, right? Shame is not a motivator for change, typically. It's something that makes people shut down, and, or ignore you, or avoid, right?
[00:39:13] And so this idea of, you're bad, you voted wrong, you know, how could you, kind of stuff, like, is not particularly effective at changing minds. Uh, so just, just as, let's assume we want to change course, right? That's, one thing is it's not effective. And to your point, it's not generous, right? To your, to, to reduce someone to just a stereotype, uh, these backwards ass, blah, blah, like, no, like, it's not helpful.
[00:39:41] And it's also in, in, I'm glad you shared, like, it's not your reality. And truthfully, I know a lot of really lovely people at their, at face value. Who's are in similar camp. And so what does that say about our assumptions and this narrative and the othering, perhaps, to go back to our previous conversation that we tend to do, right?
[00:40:02] Kori: It always, it also is reminding me that we're all kind of a product of this acculturation into this society that is about othering people and is focused on individualism and is prioritizing othering. Um, othering the majority and not focusing on the minority who is, and when I mean the minority, I mean like in numbers, like that 3%, right, who are making a lot of these decisions, who, it's like, yes, some people, half of the United States voted for Trump.
[00:40:40] Right? That's just the truth, the reality. Well, half of voters. Half of the people who voted. Correct. Half of the people who voted. Just
[00:40:47] Laura: let me
[00:40:47] Kori: be clear. But it's, but it's like, that's a large group, obviously, right? And so, that doesn't mean that every single person who voted for Trump is a racist. Every single person who voted for Kamala is not an anti racist.
[00:41:06] Laura: That's right.
[00:41:07] Kori: Right? So it's like, it, it's not a, um, either or, this, this way of thinking that we tend to do where it's the, what is it, the dichotomy, what is it? Dichotomy. Dichotomy. Right? Dichotomy. Right? That's not the truth. It's all gray. And if we're focused on the people and not on the systems, then we're going to keep finding ourselves in these traps.
[00:41:31] Because the reality is the structures and systems are broken and are enforcing and holding all of these things in place. And people are supporting those systems, but it's not in the individual way that we are trying to attribute it to them. Right? Right. Some people voted for Harris because reproductive rights were the primary, their thing that was of most importance.
[00:41:59] Some people did not show up because there's a genocide that's been happening for 430 days and the current administration has been enthusiastically supporting that genocide, right? Some people didn't show up because they didn't think that either person, either side, was offering reasonable or good choices or good options.
[00:42:21] Some people showed up and voted for Trump because he said that the price of groceries would go down, right? Like, there are so many layers to the reasons, the logic, the explanations. But what you're saying, Jared, about starting with people being people first, being humans first, is, is the step that we can't keep skipping.
[00:42:43] And that is the step that we keep skipping. That's how it's so easy to propagandize and marginalize and other and sensationalize, uh, my, um, migrants and like they're all the, like they're criminals. Because we have lost focus on the fact that these are, we are all human beings first. Yep.
[00:43:04] Jared: No, I, I strongly agree.
[00:43:06] And what that's making me think of is for the 2000 to 2010 decade. When a number of activists and advocacy groups were working on, um, promoting, I'll use the language of the time and say same sex marriage. I prefer to call it gender neutral marriage, but same sex marriage is the more common term. What research consistently showed there was the number one predictor of how people felt on the issue of legalizing same sex marriage was did you knowingly know someone who is gay, bisexual, or otherwise queer in a sexuality sense?
[00:43:41] And like, that was the number one predictor. And if you have someone in your
[00:43:44] Laura: life,
[00:43:45] Kori: right.
[00:43:46] Jared: And to me that connects with what you're saying, Kori, we're all social apes at the end of the day.
[00:43:51] Kori: Yes. And
[00:43:52] Jared: I like to believe that we can find better versions of ourselves in certain ways and have compassionate empathy beyond our immediate experience and not, but not, or.
[00:44:05] And we also know that our lived experiences are so profound and important for how we make sense of the world. And, and I think that like what you're saying, Kori, is do we have those individual connections with people who differ from us, disagree? I'm thinking going back to that decade, I'm thinking in 2004, an older gentleman came to me one day, he and I know each other for just a couple days, and he said, Jared.
[00:44:36] I want to talk to you about same sex marriage and I disagree with you, I think, but I want to talk to you because I want to talk to someone different from me and you're the first normal gay person I've met and please don't yell at me. Is that okay? And to me, it's interesting telling the story because the number one response I get is people being offended on my behalf.
[00:45:02] And I can understand, you know, people in my life who I would tell this to wanting to like protect me and like having certain images and things. And I can't convey his non verbals or his tone of voice as I relayed this story 20 years later. I will say, I felt so touched.
[00:45:18] Kori: Like,
[00:45:18] Jared: I felt like, here is someone taking a risk.
[00:45:22] Yes. As awkwardly as he knew how in that time. To do something different, to connect to someone different, to be open, explain, expand is
[00:45:29] Kori: understanding. Yes. Right.
[00:45:31] Jared: And can we problematize like what it means, like you're the first normal gay person I've met. Can that be problematized? Absolutely. For sure. So fucking literally , but, but is problematizing that the most important thing, or is the most important thing?
[00:45:44] At least to me, the most important thing was this person's asking for my help and I am touched that he thinks I can help him. Mm-hmm . I am, like I said, yes, openly and joyously. And it's really interesting because again, most people when I tell that story, they hear like, oh, that person, like, oh my God, he normal gay person, like, oh, he's so homophobic.
[00:46:07] It's like, you know what? Like, he's trying to get out of it. Well, even if he's not trying to get out of it and just trying to get into like understanding an issue from a different point of view, like, Can we just lean into connection and instead of critiquing what he's doing wrong, can we highlight what he's doing right first, right?
[00:46:28] I
[00:46:28] Kori: would also like to add that the fact that he came to you also communicates that you were presenting a level of safety for him to take that risk and I agree with what you're saying that. A lot of times, people don't take the risk to do something like that because the response is focusing on the negative part, like what you, the, what you didn't do or say right.
[00:47:00] Mm hmm. Yeah, the semantics of that was
[00:47:01] Laura: a problem because.
[00:47:03] Kori: Mm hmm. And then that limits their, uh, desire, willingness to wanna, to want to take the leap to awkwardly ask the question and engage in an uncomfortable conversation. Because, like, I do these kinds of trainings all the time, and the number one barrier that I hear, this is not, like, real data, like, I have not, this is just observational data, is, like, I don't want to get it wrong.
[00:47:32] I don't want to say the wrong thing. Like, one of the main barriers for people engaging in conversations across difference is the concern that they're going to say it wrong or get it wrong. And that they're going to be met with a closed friction and harshness critiquing the way in which they try to enter the conversation, rather than an openness to the desire to want to engage in the conversation, and then allow the conversation to happen.
[00:48:09] And we can talk about some of that awkwardness and talk about, like, let, but let them get it out. Let's let, let's let people share first, like, let's, let's give people the opportunity so that we are also developing in our understanding, right? We are disrupting some of our own assumptions about people, about the limousine liberals and who they are, right?
[00:48:34] We are disrupting our own assumptions when we allow people. To fumble and share, but share.
[00:48:45] Jared: And it's going to come out awkward before it comes out. Well, like that's how learning happens. Like I'm thinking about learning anything. Yes. I
[00:48:53] Kori: think about learning a language. Think about when you're trying to learn a new language, driving a car,
[00:48:57] Laura: learning
[00:48:58] Kori: a dance, anything.
[00:49:00] Jared: And like sticking with the theme of sexuality for another moment to build off what you said, Kori, like. I'm thinking of instances where I was asked, like, Who's the woman in the relationship? Like, I got that question quite a few times. And, you know, there are definitely some times where I just wanted to say, like, No one is.
[00:49:18] That's the point of a similarly gendered relationship. Like, there is no woman. That's the point. Um, like overwhelmingly though, when, when I was my better self and I felt I had the capacity in that moment, like we're not always caught at our best times,
[00:49:32] Kori: like
[00:49:32] Jared: I would say, and what do you mean by that?
[00:49:34] Kori: Right.
[00:49:35] Jared: And like, you know, am I, am I carrying some water proverbially speaking for this person? Yeah. But like, they're asking a question and if I want to help them, I'm not going to help them by critiquing being the first thing. Yeah. The first thing that's going to help is trying to expand the conversation and, and no one's obligated to always be on call, right?
[00:49:58] Like there is definitely, there is the simultaneous struggle where everyone should be able to ask that question of like, who's the woman in the relationship and be able to get some type of compassion and, you know, support around unpacking what that means and where they're coming from. Like, I think that's a true thing for me.
[00:50:16] I also think it's true that the, statistically speaking, much smaller group of people in similarly gendered relationships, there is a cumulative stress to answering that question the hundredth time.
[00:50:29] Kori: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:50:30] Jared: And there's a complexity there between everyone should be able to ask it once and people shouldn't be burdened with having to answer it a hundred times.
[00:50:41] And that's a complex thing to navigate.
[00:50:44] Kori: Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:50:46] Laura: It goes to your point about how you're, you're not always feeling it, right? Like you're not always at your best. So when you feel like you can and want to fine, when you don't, you don't have to, you don't owe them that.
[00:50:57] Jared: And when I'm really not ready for it, I just say, we're both the woman and I walk away.
[00:51:05] And they can do whatever they want with that.
[00:51:06] Kori: It's that frequency intensity duration. Right? It's it's Sometimes it's like, you know what, I, I had this conversation with your friend. Y'all need to go have some family time. Talk about it over there. Transfer the information within your, your friend groups. To release some of the burden of the, uh, from us, right?
[00:51:31] Okay, I had the, I talked with Laura about it. Now, Laura, go. Oh, no. Guess what? Laura can help you out with that one. Yeah. Yeah. You know, just to, to, to also just share the responsibility of the education, right? It's not. Right. Right. all Black people's responsibility to educate everybody else about the fact that all Black people aren't criminals, all Black people aren't dangerous, right?
[00:51:54] Like that's not my responsibility. I'm not the exception to any rule. I am the rule, right? Like my excellence is the standard. And so your relationship and those conversations in which you are willing to have is a gift that people should view as such, right? You are not obligated to educate them. But you are demonstrating a level of compassion, care, and kindness in opening up yourself enough to help them to better understand this particular topic.
[00:52:30] But I want people to also know and believe and recognize that it's not the responsibility of somebody. to do that education for you. Google is an extremely strong and powerful tool.
[00:52:48] Laura: Okay. Here's a resource that I would recommend you read. I'd love to talk with you after you read it. You know, something that we had offloads that power off of that work off of you.
[00:52:56] Kori: And Google is a strong tool. Like do it yourself. I'm like, I'm just saying, like, do put forth some effort. There is. It's, it's 2024. I, I can see in the 20, that decade, 2000 to 2010, you know, it's like, internet is still new, learning, growing, shifting, changing, like all of that. But nowadays there is so much information out there and I would prefer it if you could, if we could have an experiential conversation where we're talking about some experience that you had and you want some additional insight or context or how that landed on you, Then a, like, defining conversation.
[00:53:34] Then a
[00:53:34] Laura: Basics 101 course that you can do yourself.
[00:53:38] Jared: Yes. Yeah, I think there's a lot to what both of you just said. And I connect with the idea of, like, The one on one conversations should be part of, like, a bouquet of efforts, right? It's not just this one flower to go with that metaphor I just picked. I like that.
[00:53:53] That was nice. It's part of a bouquet. And I like the idea of, you know, you're talking to someone you know in your life for what's specific to them. Not just this identity class or this identity attribute,
[00:54:08] Kori: right?
[00:54:09] Jared: When a friend talks to me and says, Hey, Jared, how did you and your ex husband navigate cooking and other certain things in your relationship?
[00:54:16] Like when you didn't have strong gender roles that, you know, to define, divide labor, like, like, Oh, that's a, that's a question about Jared. It's also a question about similarly gendered couples, but it's a question that's very much about me. That you can't get online, right? You can't get the Jared answer to that online.
[00:54:38] Um, and so it's one piece of a larger effort.
[00:54:42] Kori: It should be.
[00:54:43] Jared: Yeah.
[00:54:44] Kori: But it isn't always. Yes. And it should be. It should be part of a bouquet
[00:54:50] Laura: is, is, is right. Well, and that goes back to our earlier conversation, right? What's our com, our shared common humanity? If it's about building relationships because I want to know you and appreciate you, then Then you're getting all of these other benefits as you go, right?
[00:55:04] You're learning about this dimension of your, uh, ableism, this dimension of your sexuality, this dimension of your gender without making it about those differences and the othering, right? Mm hmm. You're learning that in context of building those relationships.
[00:55:20] Jared: And so, yes. And I also think it's important not to jump to certain conclusions.
[00:55:27] Based on identity around that exploration and,
[00:55:31] and so I think it's just really important to not, to like, like you were saying, Laura, To always remember the individual in the groups, not that the group over the individual.
[00:55:42] Kori: Also, I'm going to just say that I am not with people telling me how I'm supposed to feel about anything, you know, like I'm not with that. Like if you, if you call me any, anything, a nickname that everybody else that other people have called me, and I don't like it coming from you. Then that's the end of it.
[00:56:11] Point blank fucking period. Like, I don't care what, what identity group I'm associated with that you think makes this acceptable, it doesn't feel good to me. Or even who you
[00:56:24] Laura: are in my
[00:56:25] Kori: life.
[00:56:25] Laura: If I don't feel that way or I don't like that, it's a stop.
[00:56:29] Kori: Right.
[00:56:29] Laura: Full
[00:56:30] Kori: stop. Yeah, it's like I, if it doesn't make me feel like, Oh yeah, that's fine.
[00:56:34] Or if it gives me a cringe or whatever, and I communicate that to you, don't tell me how I'm supposed to feel about it. Well, you should be, no, mm mm. No.
[00:56:46] Jared: Tell me you are surprised by my reaction. Yes. Tell me you would not expect that. Sure. Tell me you see it differently. There are many ways we can have a productive conversation, but you do not get to put feelings in my body.
[00:56:59] Thank you very much.
[00:57:00] Kori: Thank you very much.
[00:57:01] Jared: Yes. Yeah. One of my love languages is clear communication about direct boundaries. That is one of my love languages. And thank you very much. And if you want to love me well, please respect my boundary.
[00:57:14] Laura: Like boom. Uh, there you go. That's perfect for holidays. Is it not?
[00:57:19] Good luck with your families. Tell them my, my love language is direct communication and respect of my boundaries. That's what
[00:57:25] Kori: you
[00:57:25] Laura: mean. You have a coffee mug. Seriously. Like walk in there, sip it at the table. Seriously, or like, let me announce myself before I come in the room and tell you what I like and don't like.
[00:57:36] Or on those socks, you know, that they,
[00:57:38] Kori: you can, you can find everywhere. It's like on the bottom of the socks. If you can read this, you're too close. My love language is clear language. What is it? My love language. Clear communication. Clear communication. And respecting my boundaries. And respecting my boundaries.
[00:57:55] Boom. That's, those are, that's socks right there. That's some wisdom to end with, is it
[00:57:58] Laura: not? I think so. Boom. I love this. That's a mic drop, Jared. Thank you so much for, yeah, for, for lots of wisdom, lots of yes ands, and I think I hear you say is the, which I hope will be a lasting gift to not, I know it was to us, but also to people listening and, um, here's to finding what's true for an individual and treating people as fellow humans, regardless of what our assumptions might be.
[00:58:23] Jared: Yeah, that feels like a cheers. And thank you both for having me today. I have been so, I have felt so gracious for the gift you've given of keeping me company so many mornings with my coffee.
[00:58:34] Laura: And
[00:58:35] Jared: like, I just, one of the reasons I email you both often is just like, I wish they were here so we could talk about this over coffee.
[00:58:41] Why are they not sitting here in front of me? Um, so I'm glad that this morning with my coffee, we are sitting together and enjoying this space. It's quite a treat. Oh, it's a
[00:58:51] Laura: treat for us too. Pleasure is ours and we should also note that you live in California and are currently recording with us at 10 o'clock our time, 7 o'clock your time.
[00:59:02] Which to me says volumes about, uh, Your willingness to, to have conversation, even when it's hard, I would need a lot more hours under my belt awake. Yeah. Laura would need a lot more coffee.
[00:59:13] Kori: Would a forklift to get her ass out the
[00:59:16] Laura: bed. Although, you know, I had my first cup of coffee in years, just this past week and was like, I don't like how my body feels.
[00:59:22] I don't like how the body feels. It's just, it's too much. It's too much caffeine at once for me.
[00:59:27] Kori: Yeah.
[00:59:27] Jared: So, well, you know, it's. It's an easy thing to do when I get to spend the morning time with two people such as yourselves, as skilled as you are in your lives and your work, as smart and nuanced as you are in your thinking and, you know, the complexity and views you have towards life, and just, You know, it's just such an energizing space to be with two of you to explore what it means to be an awkward fluid sack of hormones to pull circle this, right?
[01:00:00] Like that is just, it's not easy being a fluid sack, right? And I just, I love the verve and intentionality both of you bring to that. That is more energizing than any cup of coffee.
[01:00:14] Laura: Well, damn. We appreciate you so greatly. You're a great little sack of fluid yourself. I'm
[01:00:20] Kori: a great sack of fluid and hormones over there.
[01:00:24] Laura: No, we love and appreciate you. And we're just happy we get to share you with the world. That's all.
[01:00:29] Kori: Likewise. Oh, thank you everyone for joining us today. Thank you for listening. Thank you, Jared Boyce, for being our first guest, um, on Pushing Past Polite, uh, and hopefully we'll be able to have you back on sometime.
[01:00:47] I'd love it. And you can connect with our audience once again. So um, how do we end this thing? What happens next? What do we say? I was like ready and then I wasn't.
[01:00:57] Laura: Yeah. Thanks for listening to Pushing Past Flight where we talk about what matters, make the world more just. Until next time, I'm Laura, I'm Kori, and
[01:01:05] Jared: I'm Jared.
[01:01:07] Laura: Take care. Happy holidays. Be good to yourselves. Get that mug. See y'all later.
Kori: Thanks for listening to Pushing Past Polite. We encourage you to go deeper in your trusted spaces and find new space for good conversation.
Laura: You'll find episodes, transcripts, and lots of other goodies at our website, pushingpastpolitepodcast.com. You can also connect with us on Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok at Pushing Past Polite.
Kori: Pushing Past Polite is an independent podcast with Kori and Laura from Just Educators.
Laura: Our cover art was designed by Rachel Welsh De Iga of De Iga Design, and our audio is produced by Keith at Headset Media. Until next time, don't get stuck talking about the weather. Push past polite.
Kori: See you next time.
Little Dude: Bye bye.
Laura: Jay, you did perfect!
