Mammograms, self-advocacy, and a literal pain in the ass (Ep.18)

Kori and Laura hugging goofily while recording in the same room!

Show notes

Kori and Laura recorded this season opener in the same physical room. Can you believe it?? Speaking of physicals, the gals delve into their experiences and best practices in preparing to see their doctors. They are grateful to have practitioners whom they trust, but also emphasize the importance of self-advocacy in medical decisions. Kori tells the story of food allergies, discovering a pain in her ass, and an amazing sports medicine doctor. Laura shares how her doctor discovered she had thyroid cancer from exercising an abundance of caution and reveals all the other well checks she went through afterwards to make sure she was all clear. We touch on college health centers, how Laura’s pediatrician set her up on a babysitting date, assumptions about what a healthy body looks like, how the BMI is B.S., and how Kori’s dad leverages his identities to connect with skeptical patients. Most importantly, we challenge the notion that health care has to be a commodity like it is in these here United States - and we address the history of injustice against Black and Brown bodies by medical researchers - and ongoing medical injustice from access to outcomes.

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Resources

Transcript

Episode 18 Full Episode

[00:00:00] Laura: Uh, we need it.

[00:00:02] Kori: We'll see you later. Bye.

[00:00:08] Laura: Guess what?

[00:00:09] Kori: Laura and I are in the same room.

[00:00:12] Laura: In the same room recording a podcast for the first time ever in the same room for the third time ever? Yeah. Look, look, that's me. See that skin? Check out that melanin in mine. Okay, ready? One, two, three.

[00:00:42] Kori: Welcome to Pushing Past Polite. I'm Kori.

Laura:What do we do here?

Kori: I don't know.

[00:00:46] Laura: Welcome to Pushing Past Polite, where we talk about what matters.

[00:00:50] Kori: And make the world more just.

Laura: I'm Laura.

Kori: I'm Kori.

[00:00:54] Laura: We're so glad you're here. We're so glad to be in the same place. We're without children and get to have dinner together. Life is good now. Uh, if you could have seen us for the last 45 minutes.

[00:01:07] Kori: If you're happy and, you know, clap your hands.

[00:01:08] Laura: I didn't even follow directions well. Um, the room, the way we had to contort rooms and hook things up and Keith and echoing sounds, I would think that being in the same room was easier.

[00:01:20] Kori: Yeah.

Laura: It's not.

Kori: It's not because it's not designed for this.

Laura: Right.

Kori: Right. And so if we were in a space that was designed for podcasting.

Laura: Hello, podcast studio.

Kori: It'll probably, hopefully be a little easier.

[00:01:32] Laura: I would hope.

Kori: But it's worth it.

Laura It is worth it. Luckily, one of us weighs about two pounds and I could just sit her up on the shelf and she could get everything. Am I in frame? You know, if I sat on that thing.

Kori: It's good.

Laura: We're together.

[00:01:44] Kori: I know. Recording. In the same space.

[00:01:48] Laura: We are, um, yeah, we had an occasion to, to get together at our shared office for a meal, a function, a company function, and we said, block your calendar - off the books, of course.

Kori: Yep. Yep.

Laura: Uh, time to get together. So here we are. What do you want to talk about today? So.

[00:02:06] Kori: So. We have so many things to talk about, but one of the things I definitely want to talk about is what it's like going to the doctor.

Laura: Hmm. Yes. Yes.

Kori: Uh, recently I had to go to the doctor. I had to take my son to his checkup and then to urgent care and your family's been sick. And, you know, after you turn 40, there are certain kinds of things that you have to do regularly. And, um, I find, and I have conversations with my other friends about this too, it's like writing things down and then like being prepared to go to the doctor is like a whole thing.

[00:02:50] Laura: Yes. I develop an agenda because I'm afraid, a combination of mom brain and will I remember to ask this as well as like in those moments, sometimes my anxiety is just high, right? We're talking about things that aren't comfortable or, um, Yeah. I'm, I'm rushing or, you know, you get out the door and you think of something else you want to say. Yeah. I, same thing. I try to pre plan it and put it in my little notes, like here's, here's a bump over here, there’s a rash… you know, whatever it is, prescription for this, is this going to interact with that?

[00:03:18] Kori: And things like if it happens some of the time and not all of the time,

[00:03:23] Laura: Inevitably it will not happen when you're at the doctor

[00:03:24] Kori: Whatever was going on will not be happening.That's exactly right. Right. And so.

Laura: I have a story about that.

Kori: I have several stories about that. Tell me. Yes. But then there are things that you go to the doctor for, and they are still going on. Um, and so one of the things we were talking about is, like, I've been losing a lot of weight. And I would say, not purposefully, not purposefully. In like the last six months, I've probably lost like, 8-10 pounds.

[00:03:53] Laura: Yeah, and all joking aside about weight loss, right, like that's a significant percentage of your body weight.

[00:03:58] Kori: Yeah.

Laura: You're not trying.

Kori: Right.

Laura: Feels a little strange.

[00:04:01] Kori: It feels a little strange. And it has been feeling a little strange, but when I weighed myself this morning and so I went to the doctor a couple of weeks ago because I, uh, it was uncomfortable to sit down. Hmm. And it has been like that for a long while. It's uncomfortable and, um, Often, you know, with childbirth, you, things go on down there, hemorrhoids, all kinds of stuff happens, right?

[00:04:22] Laura: So like soft tissue, not muscle or bone, not like,

[00:04:25] Kori: uh, not like, not like bones. Yeah. And so I was thinking, you know, I had two babies in two years. And so like. My body is still,

[00:04:32] Laura: it would impact the nether regions

[00:04:35] Kori: returning back to itself and, you know, reabsorbing organs are moving back into place and things like that. But it's been two years since I had my last person and it was like I would be rocking him and it would be very uncomfortable while I was holding him, rocking him. And so I went to the doctor and it turns out I have a cyst, but before we got to that part, you know, they take your height, your weight, your blood pressure, all of these things.

[00:05:08] Laura: Can we talk about how anxiety inducing that is just at the very start? They could get that same data midway through the appointment.

Kori: Yeah.

Laura: And it would be a little less scary. Yeah. It's like, hi, welcome. You are your number. Yeah. This is your number that you're your, this is how you're evaluated.

[00:05:21] Kori: Right? It's like a system that they use an efficiency style system, right?

[00:05:25] Laura: Mm-Hmm. . But it really makes a lot of people, particularly women uncomfortable.

[00:05:28] Kori: Yeah. Side note, um. Like I said, I've been to the doctor a couple of times and I was supposed to get a flu shot and I still haven't gotten a flu shot because of the, the inefficiency and the efficiencies, which kind of is interesting. But anyway, um, so they, at the doctor, they have tables that will weigh you. So you sit down, they do all your stuff and the table's weighing you. And so, um,

[00:05:53] Laura: I've never seen that. That's pretty cool. Yeah.

[00:05:56] Kori: This is like old technology, to be honest.

[00:06:02] Laura: They have it at the vet's office. My dogs climb on the scale.

Kori: Yeah, right?

[00:06:03] Laura: Why can't they do that for me?

[00:06:04] Kori: Exactly. Um. And so like my weight was down, but when my doctor came in and saw that my weight was down, she immediately praised me for it.

[00:06:14] Laura: Mmm.

Kori: Right?

Laura: Versus seeing this as a potential medical red flag.

[00:06:18] Kori: Right. She was like, Oh, your weight's down, but it's, you know, it's in the range that's healthy and, you know, whatever. And I was like, Yeah. She's, I was like, but I haven't been trying. I did tell her that. I was and she was like, okay.

[00:06:33] Laura: Not concerned

[00:06:35] Kori: Not really. Didn't ask any questions Didn't seem concerned about it. Um, but in that time, I've lost more weight. And so, um, I have been concerned about this the whole time. I've been telling, I've told you about it and my husband about it when it was just like, I've shifted my eating a little, but I'm still eating really regularly.

[00:06:59] Laura: I just saw you have a very healthy plate of food and you just mentioned you were hungry again. Yeah, which given the data of the weight loss, it's interesting, it's like, what is absorbing this that my body is not?

[00:07:10] Kori: Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. So the idea though, is like having to advocate for yourself because when I went, there were three things I wanted to talk about.One was my, my, my sit sitting situation.

[00:07:25] Laura: my pain in the ass

[00:07:25] Kori: My pain in the ass. the pain in my ass. The other was, I've been experiencing just like lightheadedness. Hmm. Randomly, or when I'll stand up and I'll just be kind of dizzy or like right now, I'm sitting here right now and I feel lightheaded. Hmm.

[00:07:43] And um, and I had talked about that the last time I had seen my doctor. And again, she didn't seem that concerned and I don't think that she, there's that there's anything wrong. I need to go do some blood work and we'll keep kind of investigating it. I feel like, these days, it's much more necessary for me to advocate for myself than when I was younger going to the doctor, right?

[00:08:07] Laura: Is it because it's assumed that at our age, things just are weird?

Kori: Maybe. Huh.

Laura: Do you, let me ask you a question if you don't mind my, well, you can decide if you want to answer. Um, do you trust your provider? Do you have a good rapport with your provider? Do you feel like she listens and cares?

[00:08:21] Kori: I think, I think so.

[00:08:23] And I'm going to give you a really good example about why. So, several years ago. I was having allergy issues, right? And,

Laura: Yes, I remember. And, um, for those of you who don't know me, I love food. Um, but I also love, like, shellfish, seafood,

Laura: crawfish boils.

Kori: We have annual crawfish boils. And so, in, I think, 2017 or 2018, I, we were doing a crawfish boil, I had this reaction, and so I thought I had a shellfish allergy, and so I went and saw a allergist, and they did like the skin prick test for the shellfish, and it came back negative, because it's like an anaphylactic response, but within an hour, my eyes were puffy, I had, um, welts on my neck, and I was leaving town, and I, I left town.

[00:09:21] Laura: So you had already left the office, the allergy test was over.

[00:09:26] Kori: Yeah, it was over. And so, I was sending her pictures of this, like, these, this swelling on my face, this swelling on my neck. And I was, like I said, I was out of town, so I was literally just living on Benadryl. And she's like, well, if it doesn't subside, you may have to go to an emergency room.

[00:09:46] Laura: Mm. Not what you want to do out of town either.

[00:09:48] Kori: Not what I want to do out of town. And so, like, in that experience, I really felt like my provider wasn't listening to me, right? Like, I was, I was like, this is what I'm having, this, I eat shellfish. I'm having a reaction. It may not be a reaction to the shellfish itself, but something in this food is causing a reaction in my body. And I didn't feel like…

Laura: and a delayed reaction

[00:10:15] Kori: And a delayed reaction. And my dad, who is a retired physician, was like, Yeah, there's different kinds of allergies and they, you know, we have anaphylactic, which people you know, you need an EpiPen for, they can be extremely dangerous, like, you know, throat closing,

Laura:fast acting kind of thing.

[00:10:35] Kori: But then there's other ones that kind of metabolize and, and whatever. So when I was with my primary care physician, I was telling her about my experience from 2017, 2018. This is five years ago. And she pulled up my, um, medical record. and was like shocked who the doctor was that I had this experience with. She was like, Not her! That person's wonderful. Yeah, she was like, I totally assumed it was another doctor because I hear all the time about this other doctor. I can't believe it's this doctor. And she, and so she was trying to make me an appointment with an allergist. That's what my primary care doctor was doing. And she was like, she has an appointment today in like 30 minutes.

Laura: Oh, wow.

[00:11:27] Kori: Um, she's like, but if you don't want to go to her, you could, I'll. I was like, no, this was five years ago. Our lives are different. Our bodies are different. And your, yeah, your perspective about her way that she gives care is very positive. So like, I'm willing to give another chance. It's like literally across the hallway.

Laura Yeah. I can make it in 30 minutes. I got this.

Kori: Yeah. Like I got this. And so, but when I got in the room with the allergist, you could tell that my primary care doctor had spoken to her and that allergist, that doctor didn't let me leave. Until, because I almost left like three times the appointment, not mad or anything, but just like we were talking, it felt like we weren't going to resolve it again, but she didn't let me leave.

Laura: Let me check one more thing.

Kori: Yeah, she kept asking questions. What kind of food do you like? When are you noticing this? Da, da, da, da, da. And so as we kept talking, we were talking about family and kids and food and eating and all these kinds of things. She was like, okay, well. Let's do some blood work and let's test for this thing because you were saying how you love, um, different styles of Asian food and Japanese and Chinese and oftentimes they have soy sauce in a lot of their food and you react to the soy. And so let's see if you have a soy allergy. And so now I have a short list of things that they're going to run tests on in my blood. Um, but I had to, you know, not be taking any antihistamines or anything like that before I decided to weigh out. Um, but like you could tell that my primary care doctor spoke with her because she wanted me to have a really positive experience.

[00:13:06] Laura: Yes.

Kori: The allergy, the allergist did. You could, I could just feel the difference. And so for that, I really appreciate both of them.

Laura: Yes.

Kori: Because my doctor didn't have to do that, but that was the right thing to do. And the other doctor, she didn't have to keep probing. But she wanted me to have an experience where I felt like I was being heard.

[00:13:26] Laura: It feels really redeeming after the first experience you had too.

Kori: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

Laura:Um, it's good to know that you generally trust your provider too. Yeah. I think that's really important.

[00:13:36] Kori: Yeah. Especially. Yeah, and that was like a long story for the short answer of yes. I wanted to like give an example of like why You know what I mean?

Laura: Yes.How they showed up for you.

Kori: How they showed up for me.

[00:13:45] Laura: I get that. Yeah. Yeah. I'm still trying to find

Kori: Do you trust your provider?

Laura: Do I trust my provider? Well, um, I trusted there was a provider I had that was the best I've ever had.

Kori: Same. You da, you da best. The motherfuckin best. The best I ever had!

[00:14:05] Laura: I love it. Um, she. Uh, well, just like we said how sometimes things don't show up when you actually have the appointment. I had this weird sore throat. You know, sometimes you feel your, for your glands when they're swollen. And it wasn't up here. The more I felt it was low.

Kori: Ooh.

Laura: And so I'm feeling low in my, like base of my neck, you know, above my sternum kind of thing. And of course you go to Dr. Google and it says you're dying of thyroid cancer.

Kori: You're always dying.

Laura: So of course I knew I'm not worried. It's. you know, the likelihood of it being cancer is, Oh, but so slim. I'll just, you know, I'll make an appointment while I make an appointment. The pain goes away. I was like, Oh, do I still go? Do I not go? Let me still go. This just feels like something I need to check out. So I go to this provider, this primary care provider who was lovely. And she asked lots of good questions. She's examining me physically - doesn't feel anything. She said, but out of, out of an abundance of caution, I want you to do an ultrasound. She sends me for the ultrasound, the ultrasound tech, or I guess. radiologist whoever interprets it says, listen, we found some nodules, but it's very common to have nodules on your thyroid. You know, whatever percentage of people have them don't panic, but out of an abundance of caution, let's send you for a biopsy. Um, and so I go to an endocrinologist who says to me, listen, don't panic. We'll know within one pass of the needle, if it's clear, if the liquid I get out is clear, it'll, we'll assume it's just a regular nodule. If it's not, you know, we'll, we'll have a little bit… our indication. And I knew when she went in for that second and third pass of the needle, that it wasn't good news, but it would have been so easy for me not to have made the first appointment. For my doctor to say, I feel nothing. And my blood work was fine too.

[00:15:47] Kori: And also like, this is totally normal. Having nodules is normal. So don't worry about it.

[00:15:51] Laura: Yes. Right. But as a result, I was two months postpartum, I think two months postpartum, maybe five months postpartum. I had an infant,

[00:16:00] Kori: baby number?

Laura: baby number three.

[00:16:00] Kori: Okay.

[00:16:01] Laura: So here I am like managing a house, all these people with their needs. And I get a call before I drop a kid off to preschool one morning that I have, you know, papillary carcinoma. And I was like, carcinoma, that's cancer. And she's like, yes, yes, yes. She's like stage one stage one. And I was like, yes, but all I heard was carcinoma.

[00:16:19] Kori: Right. Right. Right.

Laura: Um, so there's more than one tie a whole thing. Um, long story short, I did have thyroid cancer. It did require, um, a surgery. Mm hmm. So I have no thyroid. I had my thyroid removed. I had the option of doing a partial thyroidectomy. And then the trick with that, the hope with that is that you wouldn't have to take any hormones, right? Your body would make enough the part that was still there.

Kori: Right.

Laura: But you'd have a really hard time telling if there was regrowth because you couldn't tell if it was the part that was still left. So I said, no, no, take it all. I don't mind taking a pill the rest of my life. I can live with that.

Kori: Right.

Laura: Um, so I, yeah, and that was it. I did not need to go through a radiation treatment.

Kori: Oh, wow.

Laura:Um, nothing else. And I go regularly for checkups and have had no reoccurrence, but like I said,

[00:17:02] Kori: an abundance of caution

[00:17:06] Laura: An abundance of caution saved me a ton of hassle later. Um, so I, at that point I promptly looked at all of my benefits. And preventive care and said, where else can you put a camera in my body? Where else can you stick one? What will my insurance cover? Mammogram? You're not 40 yet. I didn't care. I went for a mammogram. Yeah. Colonoscopy? You're not 55. I didn't care. Yeah. I went for, oh God, the doctor thought I was crazy when I came in. He's like, so what are your symptoms? You don’t have any symptoms?

[00:17:29] Kori: Because you had to have been like 35, 36.

[00:17:33] Laura: Let's see. She was 2015. 33. 33. Yeah. 33. He's like, you have no symptoms and you're not 55. Why are you here? Yeah. Well, honestly, because I had no idea I had thyroid cancer and I'd like to know.

Kori: I just want to make sure it's all clear.

Laura: Just check it. Yep. I want to have a really good shit. Yeah. And I did. And yeah, it was not that bad. I say that to say, I don't know what your experiences are with mammograms and all of that but are they comfortable? No. Most fun way to spend a day off? No. Are they terrible? No.

[00:18:03] Kori: So let's just be really honest with everyone. Women's doctor visits are never comfortable.

[00:18:09] Laura: No. They're not designed to be.

Kori: They're not designed to be. It's like, hoo hahs in the air.

[00:18:14] Laura: So, so, so male doctor doesn't have to bend down, right?

[00:18:18] Kori: Right, yeah. It's like stirrups and, you know.

Laura: Cold metal.

Kori: Cold metal. Um, the mammogram, like, I am heading in for my third, I got a letter from my doctor recently that I need to go back again for a third, uh, imaging session for the mammogram. So like, I turned 40. In June of 22 and so I had one I think one inDecember and then I had another one and now they said I need another one by like December, by this month sometime. So like every six months I'm going for imaging.

[00:18:58] Laura: Are they balancing this with the concern about radiation exposure?

Kori: I don't know.

[00:19:03] Laura: I want you to ask your dad about that.

[00:19:04] Kori: I'm going to ask, uh, more than my dad about that. Yeah. My uncle is an oncologist.

[00:19:11] Laura: My people. Uncle Oscar.

Laura: My people made it out of high school and actually not all of them. Uh, yeah, no, no. I don't have any doctors to call in the family. That's a useful.

[00:19:18] Kori: It's extremely useful.

[00:19:20] Laura: That could be the difference between a positive medical experience or not in the same way your primary care advocated for you for somebody to know you're a doctor, so and so's daughter or cousin or niece.

[00:19:29] Kori: Oh, I use that.

Laura: You should.

Kori: Even, even to this day. I'm always telling people that my dad is a physician, but I also, I'm a Black woman, which you all know.

[00:19:40] Laura: Wait, what?

Kori: What? Well, found out. Um, and all, most of my doctors are black women as well. And one of the reasons I just wanted to do that was for this reason, right?

[00:19:51] Laura: So there's not this issue of I don't, I don't believe you or I'm second guessing your experience.

[00:19:56] Kori: That was my assumption is that I assume that in having Black female doctors.I would have less of that. That was, that's the thinking.

[00:20:07] Laura: And has that played out?

[00:20:10] Kori: Aside from that one allergist experience, which has, what's totally been 180 since I've seen her again. Yeah. It has been that my son's, um, pediatrician, she's a Black woman. Um, I think that my dentists, my dentist is a Black woman or the dentist practice that we go to, um, not for the kids, but for us.Um, our primary care, yeah, yeah, yeah, my, my, uh, my, uh, optometrist.

[00:20:39] Laura: Interesting. I can appreciate and understand that, especially when you think about differential outcomes.

Kori: My OBGYN.

Laura: Oh, that was probably a critical choice.

Kori: Absolutely. Uh huh.

Laura: Because maternal outcomes can be.

Kori: For Black women.

Laura: For Black women are dismal. Not can be. They are. They are dismal.

Kori: Yes.

Laura: So knowing that someone believed you when you said you were in pain.

Kori: Yeah. Or something is not right. Uh huh. Uh huh. Is really important. Uh huh.

Laura: Well that doctor that I adored, that really, just in case, extra mile for me went into private practice which is indicative of the system and the fact that it does not make sense. She didn't want to spend five minutes per patient. She wanted to have more solid time. And so her practice does not accept insurance. She's like the boutique firm and like, I get it. And I want that for her. I want that quality of life. So as a result, I took the The next person who came to the practice, uh, is actually a woman of color. I very much liked her and she diagnosed something in me because of her familiarity with something that her husband had. She said, I know exactly what you have. This is when I developed the alpha gal syndrome, which is from a tick bite. I was living on Benadryl in April of 2020, you know, nothing else was going on in the world. My life was simple. Just started a new job. I'm homeschooling kids. Now. I literally rashes.

Kori: I didn't even know you.

Laura: No, you did not know me yet. And was having like crazy tummy reactions, like to things. And when I went in, she says, okay, let's try in the meantime, while I get this blood work run, I want you to drop pork, beef, you know, veal, all this stuff. And it was still happening and she called me back said the test was positive because I know and you don't even think about this because my husband has it. Um, she says you need to drop dairy too. That's why it's still been happening for you. So anyway, but her experience, her life experience and knowing about something that was unusual was the difference in me being misdiagnosed or saying, sorry, you've just got irritated skin.

[00:22:37] Kori: Yeah, right.

[00:22:38] Laura: Uh, it was a huge, it was huge. So I look for providers with diverse life experiences as well. I try to avoid, um, dudes. As much as I can. There's some great dudes out there. Yeah, mine. I've had some great dudes.

[00:22:52] Kori: So Dr. Robert Salas.

[00:22:53] Laura: Okay, this is going to be a little who's who in Baltimore, Maryland.

[00:22:57] Kori: No, he's in California. This is my doctor I grew up with.

[00:23:01] Laura: If you, if you're in the area…

[00:23:02] Kori: if you're in sports medicine, you know who Dr. Salas is. He, but he was a family practice sports medicine doctor. So he was my doctor for everything. Yes. Right. And, um, I was spoiled rotten.

Laura:Mm. Isn't that wonderful?

Kori: Mm hmm. I was spoiled rotten. And so, like, he was my doctor from the time I was 10 until I was 25.

[00:23:24] Laura: I love that. Yeah, you didn't graduate out like you did with a pediatric.

[00:23:27] Kori: Right. Because he had the sports medicine. Because he had the family practice and he was sports medicine. Smart. So he was my doctor for like a super duper crazy long time to the point that when I fell off of my bike and got a concussion in

Laura: College?

[00:23:39] Kori: 2014. No. Post college?

[00:23:42] Laura: hmm. Mm hmm. I don't think I knew about that.

[00:23:43] Kori: The doctor I saw here knew Dr. Salas because he was a sports medicine doctor.

Laura: He is the shit.

Kori: Yeah. He, the doctor I saw here was a sports medicine doctor who specialized in like concussion, post concussion syndrome, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And so he, we were, you know, I was going to see him often and, um, we were, we would talk and he was like, Oh, here. I, I went to the lecture with Dr. Salas and he's like the guy.

[00:24:12] Laura: That's awesome. I, speaking of graduating out and, uh, a doctor you didn't want to leave. Growing up, I had a nurse practitioner in a pediatrics practice that I started seeing probably at about 10, knowing like there's probably not that many more years left, maybe 12, maybe 12.

Kori: Right.

[00:24:26] Laura: I hit 17. I hit 18. They're still seeing her. I would go to the counter and they're like, what's wrong with your child? I'm the child. And funny story. She one day saw me for something and said, Hey, are you busy tonight? And I was like, what? She goes, I have a friend I'm supposed to hang out with. And her babysitter bailed. And she asked me to babysit. That's how I met my people, the family that I nannied for, that I still to this day have this wonderful relationship with. It's her godchildren and she, yeah, isn't that wild? But here I am, she's like, guess what? I've got a need and you're old.

[00:25:03] Kori: That, yeah. You're old enough. And since I see you often. I'm going to do you a solid. Yeah, I do you a solid.

[00:25:10] Laura: You can get some 10 an hour, which was a lot of money back in 1997.

[00:25:12] Kori: uh, yeah.

Laura: And you do me a solid because I don't want to cancel my plans with my friends. Isn't that funny?

Kori: That's so adorable.

Laura: So I eventually felt like, okay, they were judging me. They thought I was teen mom every time I came up to the counter. So I, you know, moseyed on, went to the college health center, whatever for a while. College health center where they give you a bag of salt and say gargle, even if you have a broken arm.

[00:25:32] Kori: Oh, I went to Georgetown. We had a hospital.

[00:25:38] Laura: I went to a tiny little state school.

[00:25:39] Kori: We were like at a training medical facility. So when you went to the hospital there, it's like you had, you know, really high quality doctors and you know, they were training other training people to be doctors. So you had medical students, doctors, residents. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:25:57] Laura: We literally had a health center that was underground, like in a bunker. It was. Yeah. We always joked, you just get a bag of salt.

[00:26:03] Kori: That's hilarious.

[00:26:05] Laura: And it's kind of sad. You got a yeast infection, here's a bag of salt. Whatever it is, it's just a bag of salt. Just gargle. You'll be fine.

Kori: You'll be fine.

Laura: Yep. You'll be fine. So anyway. Yeah. Um, it's so important to advocate for yourself. It's so important to take preventive care seriously and do it regularly, even though it's not fun.

[00:26:22] Kori: And I'm talking to my people, especially my men. Yeah. Mm. Preventative care is so critically important.

[00:26:30] Laura: Yeah, and I, I think there's, I, I, maybe I don't know. I would assume there's more of a stigma for men to go and get well checks versus women. We have so many systems where things can go wrong.

[00:26:40] Kori: You know, in like the Black community, there's even more of a stigma because of, uh, racist ass America and testing on us.

[00:26:48] Laura:Yes.

Kori: In all kinds of ways. without permission.

[00:26:51] Laura: Yeah. Failure in ethics.

[00:26:54] Kori: And so there has been like this intense, this very deep trauma of mistrust around, um, medicine. I feel like that may be one of the reasons that my dad actually became a practitioner, medical practitioner, right? Like my dad's, my dad's dad died before I was born. I think March the year that I was due or, you know, in 1982. Yeah. And, uh, he was a pillar of health. I'm using air quotes, right? Um, and like, to the point that like, the nurses were swooning over him.

Laura: He was just a tall drink of water.

Kori: Literally, because he was a contractor. He could still carry two, two bags of cement. You know, he was like a strong, built.

Laura: Healthy appearing man.

Kori: Healthy appearing uhhuh man. But I don't think that he was going and getting, you know, it wasn't the same then in 82, but still there was like regular checks that you could be doing and you know, it's like the south, Black, much more.

[00:28:02] Laura: Florida, right?

Kori: Florida, yeah. Mm-Hmm, . Yeah. Just like a different, different thing. So like. Wellness and going to the doctor is something that I know my dad has conversations with his peers about when COVID was happening. He was like talking to his friends. It was adorable.

[00:28:25] Laura: As physician or as friend?

[00:28:26] Kori: As both. As like a medical professional.

Laura: I need you to know.

Kori: And a friend. And a man of faith, right? He was like, look, I, I, I have you on all of these fronts, right? It's like, I walk with you as my brother. I walk with you as my brother in Christ, right? And I've known you for 60 years.

[00:28:49] Laura: And his advice was to get into that preventative care

[00:28:52] Kori: to go get the vaccine, to get vaccinated.

[00:28:54]Laura: Oh, the vaccination during COVID because again, because of that intense mistrust.

[00:28:59] Kori: Yes. So they, people weren't going and. But it was like, they're all of that age in their 60s that like they needed to have

Laura: higher risk.

Kori: they were at higher risk. And so what was really beautiful that was happening is he was starting a movement in our like greater community because he was having these really critical conversations with other elders who were then sharing that information with people that they touched.

[00:29:33] Laura:

Kori: Yes. Right? And so expending that trust. And so, um, there were some people here who live here who like, I'm really close to them. One of the kids called me. I called my dad. And I was like, you need to call. And he did. And him making that phone call led to, like, all these other people, like, His friend obviously getting vaccinated, but also like. They have a church. All these, they were talking about it with medical facts. Yep. To their congregation, which is also almost all Black. Mm hmm. You see what I'm talking about? Like he had a little movement within the, this greater communities. He was having these really critical conversations.

[00:30:18] Laura: He was using his credibility in all of those different ways, right? In his medical role and his, in the connection to faith and the identity piece to hold, to provide this like chain of care. Yes. Yeah. In our community. Again, rural underserved in a lot of ways. Um, the president of the NAACP and our local community received an award for her work on vaccination efforts because she recognized the vulnerability. She organized clinics, organized through churches in our area. It was incredible. Wendy's a hero of mine.

[00:30:51] Kori: And similar things were happening in Maryland where I live, um, where like a lot of. And we have the University of Maryland, too, so it was like the University of Maryland was the hub of our vaccinations and stuff, but then they were dispatching to large churches that were predominantly Black or multicultural churches. And that's where you would go to get the vaccination. You know what I mean? Like, you don't have to come to a hospital or to the campus to, you know, you can go to a local church.

[00:31:24] Laura: Ours was the Parks and Rec gym. Mm hmm. Yeah. And setting up there. Yep. Same kind of idea. Yeah, that, that community infrastructure was, I think, really critical for friends to approach friends or people that they knew in order to feel more comfortable and have their concerns relieved.

[00:31:40] Kori: I get that. And as we're like moving into a new year, it's like thinking about our health, like the healthy looking, right? So like, I got the comment, Oh, yeah, but your weight's fine. It's in the right, right range. But I don't know if it's fine. Well, and

[00:31:57] Laura: right range does not mean right for you. Right. Right?

[00:32:00] It's like, of people my age and height is not

[00:32:03] Kori: necessarily I'm like it, this is what I weighed in college.

[00:32:07] Laura: Yeah, that's, that's, I mean, I'm not trying to make light. No, that's, that's

[00:32:11] Kori: wild. Yes. That's bonkers. Yes. I have not weighed this little in well over 10

[00:32:18] Laura: years. Can I, okay, I want to bring up something connected to this, is this idea of assumptions about health.

[00:32:26] Mm hmm. The assumption that tiny equals healthy and large equals unhealthy. Yes. And how that, I mean, as someone occupying a larger body and trying to make healthy choices for my life as best I can, you know, again, is there room for improvement? Always. Um, I will never forget after I had, I want to say my second baby, maybe my third, I went for a checkup with my OB who had delivered, you know, the six week, all of that.

[00:32:51] And then maybe even the first annual after following. And she made a comment to me and she intended it to be motivating, but it was something along the lines of. I have no, you're starting to trend up weight wise and you need to come back here. Don't come back here next year. And unless you've lost 20 pounds, I don't know if it was, don't come back here or I don't want to see you any heavier.

[00:33:12] I want to see you 20 pounds lighter by next year. No. And guess who didn't make that next appointment? Yeah, exactly. As I watched the scale. Right. Like I was mortified. So I've shared that with my subsequent primary care providers to say, not to say we can't talk about this, but I need you to know that the assumptions are made that it's entirely my behavior, right?

[00:33:31] Something within my control. You know, forget that I've had thyroid cancer and my hormones are forget that I, you know, manage certain amounts of stress and we cook from home. We, I mean, we're not, anyway, it is hard. It is hard. I mean, it's just hard walking through, walking through that and the assumptions.

[00:33:52] And I know that in the same way that no one is absolved of, you know, negative forces that like, I know that I've looked at other people who maybe are larger than me and made assumptions. Um, which is not right either. So I just want to say that I'm not immune

[00:34:05] Kori: or above, but there is an obsession in our society around size and like for women, it's desirability and all of these things.

[00:34:16] And, and also as, as, Moms, like new moms, not as new moms, veteran moms, rookie moms, whatever, it's. Our bodies go through a lot, right? And so, first off, postpartum lasts like seven years. Mm hmm. And so you had three kids in four

[00:34:38] Laura: years? And nursing and pregnancy, right? So it was You're

[00:34:42] Kori: still in postpartum. I'll take that

[00:34:44] Laura: as long as possible.

[00:34:47] I'm post something. Post something. I'm

[00:34:49] Kori: post sanity. Right? Like, for real. So it's, I mean If you just, just think about, let's like, let's just talk about motherhood for just a quick, brief moment and what our bodies have to do, how much movement takes place inside of our bodies. in order to create room for humans, and how long it takes for that movement to happen for the human to be created, and then how long it takes for it, your body to return everything back to where it belongs, right?

[00:35:24] And all of the things that are happening while that's happening. Yes. Right? And so, the expectation That, or the assumption that petiteness or smallness is equal to healthy makes zero sense when half of the population or half of half of the population is producing people.

[00:35:47] Laura: That's a really, that's an interesting frame.

[00:35:50] Yeah, you're right. Think about what, yeah, well, and, and BMI and all these things are designed around the male body. Right. Right. The female body that has, you know, boobies and booties and extra things. Yeah. Right.

[00:36:01] Kori: Exactly. Right. Exactly. Yeah, and BMI is like actually not good information. So don't put any, a lot of weight around your BMI like that is

[00:36:08] Laura: not a pun. Don't put any weight. Don't put any weight on your BMI.

[00:36:13] Kori: Yeah. It's like worry about your blood work.

[00:36:16] Laura: Yeah. Worry about your blood work. Yes. My cholesterol is beautiful. Yeah. My blood work is beautiful.

[00:36:21] Kori:My blood pressure is a little high. See?

[00:36:23] Laura: And I don't want that for you.

[00:36:24] Kori: Right. But my cholesterol is a little high and my cholesterol is high because I eat meats and things.

[00:36:29] Right. And it runs in my family.

[00:36:32] Laura: And it does not run in my family. No one in my family has cholesterol problems. Like, no, it's not been a thing. Yeah. So again, assumptions, if you put the two of us next to each other, which we can do, because we're in the same room. If you put ourselves, put us next to each other and, and said, like, make some inferences, you can make, again, if you had to guess who had cholesterol problems, I have a feeling you'd probably guess me.

[00:36:56] Kori: But you might guess me because that may be more prevalent in the black community. And then like it may be more part like high blood pressure, hypertension, like some of those things. Right. Yeah. Um, diabetes.

[00:37:08] Laura: Yeah. Who's the cancer survivor? Who's the right. Right. Right. So what are our takeaways?

[00:37:15] Kori: Well, first takeaway is that preventative care is critical and important. And if you haven't done your annual checkup, go, this is your reminder. This is your reminder. You were waiting for a sign. Here it is. This is your sign. Go, go, go, go. Mental health is also also health, critically important, and is also health. So when we're talking about your health, we're talking about your physical health, your mental health, your emotional health. Yes. Right. Your wellbeing overall. Uh, but go to the doctor, get blood work, and, and advocate for yourself. Yes. Like, write down the things that you, that have been coming up for you that you want to talk about. Yes. And if you're not satisfied, like, I was willing to leave, and I probably shouldn't have been willing to leave because I was just kind of over it. But if you're not satisfied, stay. The persistence of my doctor helped me to stay. And, and oftentimes you don't get that persistence, right? Like, I didn't get that persistence in my first experience with her. Mm hmm. Um. But it's writing down the things that are of concern and advocating for yourself, right?

[00:38:18] Laura: And to that point about writing things down, I mean, having data as bringing as much data as you can. And by that I don't necessarily mean charts and graphs, but like plotting your cycle or, you know, noticing food journals or whatever it is that can help create a full picture. Right. So that way it's not brushed off as, well, it's probably this. Right. Well, actually. According, it's, it's not that I've been doing this, this, and this. Exactly. And I'm not saying you're wrong doc, but like here, let's add some new information

[00:38:44] Kori: Exactly. Let's layer this. And the food journaling thing actually is a really great example. Any kind of documentation does not have to be forever. It doesn't have to be comprehensive. It's like for one week, this is what I'm going to do. I'm going to just like write down the things that I'm eating. And if my body has some sort of, what are my triggers? What am I noticing?

[00:39:03] Laura: Yes, absolutely. Notice. And that's it too. It's, it's bringing greater awareness to our bodies. I know, especially as moms and working moms and moms, you know, just in this post apocalyptic, whatever the heck we're in right now, like there are so many things to worry and be sad and stressed about. Yeah. That paying attention to what's going on in our own body is very easy to push back. Yeah. Back burner. And yeah, we need to be paying attention. Noticing is important. Checking in with your body, the thinking about. How am I feeling? Right. What is that that I'm feeling?

[00:39:33] Kori: And does that feel right? If it doesn't feel right, write it down. Yes. Yep. Right. It's like, I was walking around with ass pain or, you know, sitting down with ass pain. Yes. And pain, like a straight pain in the ass. And it was just, it got to a point where I was like, okay, this, Something about this isn't right. So my first step was I emailed my OB and I was like, Hey, I have this thing, this pain, I was thinking it might be this, but I don't know, what are your thoughts? And her response was. Uh, make an appointment with your primary care. GP.

[00:40:08] Laura: I was going to ask where she sent you. Mm hmm. Okay.

[00:40:10] Kori: Make an appointment with your primary care. Because they will assess what it is, and if you have to go to a specialist or somebody else, they can dispatch you to that.

[00:40:20] Laura: Yeah. So find a provider that believes you and listens to you and is willing to And keep shopping, right?

[00:40:27] Kori: Like I'm going to be shopping. The thing about it. The thing about it is, the doctor patient relationship is a relationship, which means you can break up, right? You can break up. You can leave that relationship one and two. You are equal members of the relationship, so the doctor has expertise in medical things. But you've been living in your body your whole life. Yes.

[00:41:01] Laura: Yes. Mm hmm.

[00:41:03] Kori: So don't uh, don't discount that value that you bring having lived in your body your whole life. Yes.

[00:41:12] Laura: Yes. To that point, I also want to remind myself and maybe other people listening to us that needing to be kind to our own bodies, you know, not just in our treatment of them in spa day. And I don't mean any of that. I mean much more of like being grateful for what your body has done for you. you know, that you can bring new life into the world, that you have overcome an illness, that your body, you've gotten through the pandemic if you're listening to this, right? Your body has done that for you and your body is your ticket to be here.

[00:41:41] Kori: Right. That you can put your feet on the floor in the morning or you can.

[00:41:47] Laura: Yeah. Move. Yeah. Celebrate what your body can do.

[00:41:49] Kori:Celebrate what your body can do. Yeah. Yeah. And, but, and pay attention when it's doing things differently than what it has done.

[00:41:58] Laura: Notice like you keep saying, notice like today when I had a double shot of espresso and a coffee and I haven't had coffee in years and my body said, ow, restroom. Yeah needed it for the drive up here, but, um, we'll be doing that again anytime soon.

[00:42:16] Kori: Um, thanks for sharing. I appreciate it. Oh yeah, I'm all happy to share about my pain in the ass.

[00:42:21] Laura: We won't name it yet, right? Some days we can name them, but not today.

[00:42:26] Kori: Well, I think I did, did I not say?

[00:42:28] Laura: Did you want to name it?

[00:42:29] Did I have a little cyst? Oh, no, no, no. I meant, like, give it a name. Like,

[00:42:32] Kori: Chalosh. Oh, you want to know something that's so funny? What? Bob. One of my old teammates from college had a little cyst on her knee, I think. And she named it Bob. And it was named Bob.

[00:42:43] Laura: Did she draw a little face on it?

[00:42:44] Kori: No, she didn't draw a face on it, but it was Bob. We all called it by its name.

[00:42:48] Laura: Oh my God. I did not name my tumor for the record. That's amazing. Bob. That's amazing. I'm almost certain it was Bob. Well, I bet she remembered. Yeah.

[00:42:57] Kori: Let's ask her.

[00:42:57] Laura:Yeah, I'm sure we'll ask her. Um, no, I think, uh, and I also want to call attention to, I know we were trying to wrap, um, medical justice too, right? The fact that access to care is not something that is universal. Right. And we don't have to accept that. Right. As the way things are. Most countries don't. Right. And yet, here we are assuming it's just, well, what a shame. Yeah.

[00:43:22] Kori: No, not what a shame. Something we can do something about. Because, and people are suffering so much from that, like, no one, no one in this land of the free should be.

[00:43:32] Laura: Did you use air quotes? You want to put air quotes up? Mm. I do.

[00:43:36] Kori: Yeah. Uh, you saw how I looked around. I know. Um, but no one should be one medical bill away from losing their home, their car, their the food that like that construct is like mind boggling. Yes, that like you are one injury, one incident, incident away from not only having to deal with the medical thing that you now have to deal with, but you also don't have a home.

[00:44:19] Laura: We don't need to accept this as the way things need to be. I just want to, it's one of those like pause, like you realize we're making assumptions. We as Americans make assumptions every day that this is just what it is, or maybe this is the best system in the world, or the best it's going to be. It is not, and it can be better.

[00:44:35] Kori: Love it. Yeah. It can be so much better, and there are examples of what it can look like.

[00:44:41] Laura: That's the part, right? I am not the policy expert on how to get us there, except to say we need to trust people that are, and there, there is a price tag to these things, but I would much rather be investing money on this than A lot of other things we prioritize in our budget. Right. So, um, again, just awareness and trying to normalize that conversation is something I'd like to call attention to.

[00:45:03] Kori: Yeah. And like that, the inconsistency of care and the lack of adequate care has so many implications that are based on income, based on race, based on location, geographical location. Um, and that just simply should not be the case. Like, That just shouldn't be the case when we work at an organization that is figuring out solutions to reduce the carbon dioxide footprint in our world, in our environment. Then I feel like it should be possible to have a healthcare system where insulin doesn't cost $2,000.

[00:45:45] Laura: I think, to boil it all down in my view, it's about this worry about us and mine and what, you know, what is mine and what I deserve and what other people don't. And I think that's actually one of the very negative downsides to this, to American individualism.

Kori: White supremacy culture. Agree.

Laura: Yeah. If we could see everyone as equally as worthy and human and fully human and we know what our own experiences are, if we wanted to extend that to every person, even people that don't look like us, live like, you know, whatever it is like us, we would be in so much better of a place. I think that thinking, that culture, that mindset can be such a trap for us from seeing about what could be.

[00:46:28] Kori: Yeah. And we're sold bullshit. Like we're literally just spoon fed bullshit. Yeah. Right, like, we have a recruitment problem in our armed forces. Why? Because we send brown and black kids over there promising them some sort of access to the American dream, and then they come home and don't have anything.

Laura: Mm hmm. Right? Like, it's, that's just bullshit. Right? We, we're told that, you know, we live in the land of the free, yet you go across the bridge. And there are tent cities everywhere. Mm hmm. Right?

[00:47:14] Laura: Like, we Where we can't afford healthcare for everyone.

[00:47:15] Kori: Healthcare, housing, like, but we have billions to spend over the state. And we have billionaires.

[00:47:20] Laura: And we have billionaires. That are paying much less in taxes than you and me. That's, there. There's the, there's the spoon. Come on now. I say this to say, I just want to end with this. We do not need to assume. Don't get me started.

Kori: You didn't get me started, Laura.

Laura: And I started, I pulled, I pulled the gas, the gas, uh, what is it? Like I started the lower gas engine and I let it go and the tank is full. Um, I say that all this to say we need to normalize conversations where we question what's possible because it's very fucking possible.

[00:47:54] Kori: It is very possible and people shouldn't have to move to other countries to have access to what is 100 percent possible here. Yes. Right.

[00:48:02] Laura: Like some of the best institutions to train our doctors.

[00:48:05] Kori: Right. Some of like, you're right.

[00:48:08] Laura: So take care of you. Listen to your body. Find you a good provider. Give yourself some notes in your notes apps and go in ready.

[00:48:15] Kori: And start talking about this.

[00:48:16] Laura: Talk about what matters. Make the world more just.

[00:48:18] Kori: Yep. I'm Kori. I'm Laura. See you next time. Take care.

[00:48:22] Laura: Bye bye. Make your appointments, save the tatas.

Kori: Thank you for listening to Pushing Past Polite We encourage you to go deeper in your trusted spaces or find new space for good conversation. You'll find content to help you get started on our social media channels. 

Laura: We're at Pushing Past Polite on Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok. 

Kori: Pushing Past Polite is an independent podcast with Kori and Laura from Just Educators.

Laura: Our cover art was designed by Rachel Welsh De Iga of De Iga Designs, and our audio is produced by Keith at Headset Media. Until next time, don't get stuck talking about the weather. Push past polite. 

Kori: See you next time.